A Dialogue of Two Parts

Bsd

I am proud to present to my readers (all five of you!) a dialogue between two individuals that I orchestrated for my own amusement. Having been amused, I decided to share the wealth. Unfortunately, this is one of those jokes which needs explanation. Or at the very least, a preface.

Here it is:

The Characters

The Roommate (who is, in fact, MY roommate) is someone who takes her arguments very seriously. She believes in what she says, and in being open to the opinions of others. She's studying philosophy. (I think I could have started - and finished - with that, and saved myself four lines of typing.)

The Real Shliach (who is probably someone's roommate, but definitely not mine) is someone who doesn't take his arguments seriously. At least not the ones he has on the internet. He believes in nothing he says, and in being so open to the opinions of others, that sometimes he ends up with none of his own.

Now read and laugh as The Roommate tries desperately to have a serious argument, and The Real Shliach tries desperately not to!

Subject: Ok, psychoanalyze me.
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From: The Real Shliach :

I'm always up for a discussion. Discuss away!

--
Enjoy visiting www.therealshliach.blogspot.com

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From The Roommate:

Hi,
My intent was less to psychoanalyze and more to point out where your impressions of Boteach may due to hearsay or a scant understanding of him and his approach - if you can point me in the direction of posts where you were more critical of him I can begin to try and do that.

Best -
The Roommate

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From: The Real Shliach:

http://therealshliach.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-issues-fascinating-eh.html
http://therealshliach.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-celebration-of-bochurim.html

Now honestly, I wrote these a while ago, and I may not agree with everything I said. But don't worry, I'll still argue with you, because it's quite the fun activity. Bichlal, I don't know too much about Shmuley, and I'm sure that as a person he's a wonderful guy. I didn't particularly like the infamous pie-throwing incident, nor his debating with Christopher Hitchens. I thought that he really dropped the ball there.

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From The Roommate:

As I'm rereading your posts I'm realizing that there's very little I can say, since you didn't say one critical word - only spiteful vendettas.
I'm always game for criticism (namely: insightful remarks that point out the subtleties of a situation, person, art...etc) because those are debatable, the nuances defined for discussion, and prejudices generally aired quite clearly.

Since you don't seem to consider Boteach a Chassid, or having a valid opinion, without any explanation why you find it appropriate to justify such casual defamation, there isn't really much to discuss....
I'm remembering now why I got upset when Ashirah showed me those posts....struck me as remarkably callous and unintelligent.

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From: The Real Shliach:

Wow. That was pretty harsh. Um, I'm not sure how to respond. After reading what you said I read what I had written; in the article about Shmulie and Nobel, I realized my mistake and wrote as much. Fine, so I didn't exactly apologise, but I said I was wrong, which is pretty close. Besides, that post had some great prose, which I still marvel at many months later. As for the second, well, all I did was write my own opinion on the matter. As it happens, the guy who did the real insulting was CCL, who is another story entirely.
Anyway, this isn't about defending myself, because you aren't interested in me defending myself. You'd rather me prostrate myself before an image of the righteous Rabbi Shmuley and beg forgiveness for my many sins.
Listen, it's not like I really have anything against Rabbi Boteach. Heck, if he calls up and asks me to go out with his daughter, I'd probably say yes. Do I agree with everything he says, or more importantly, does? Heck no. Would he, if he knew me, agree with everything I say, or do? I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't. Still, I'm pretty sure that he's a good guy, and I'm pretty sure that I'm a good guy, and if you can't say a sharp word once or twice, then what's the point of it all?

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From The Roomate:

I think the insulting bit was where you called Boteach not a real Chassid and things like that without any substantail critique that would be interesting. There's no need to prostrate, just needless and unfounded insults about someone I admire really irk me, especially when it's trendy to disapprove of him and he's contributed so much to the Jewish world and is a tribute to Lubavitch. Sharp words are fine. The man does say controversial things, and I think that its good that people disagree and discuss why they disagree and about what particularly; it's good to use someone's extreme or unusual position to help you clarify your own. It's when you bash because you're what some may call a hater (haha) then I just find that so wrong and aggravating. So again, if you have real critique - by all means. If you have needless sinas - bad news.

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From: The Real Shliach:

I'm sorry. I done bad. Shtuff happens. Is he a Chassid? If you say he is, then I'll take your word. What else can I write? Tell me and I'll write it.

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From The Roommate:

I'm so honored you would take my word, sheerly on the basis that I'm Cheerio's roomate. It really depends on how you define a Chassid. I can tell you personally from what I've seen of him, both in public and private, he is a kindhearted, caring person devoted to G-d, Chassidus, and helping his fellow Jew. That's enough for me. As per his opinions and writings - individual issues can be debated and disagreed about on an individual basis. As per his personhood, I can testify to his character.

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From: The Real Shliach:

I'm taking your word on it because I have no reason not to. I only distrust people when they prove that they can't be trusted; up 'till now you've done nothing which would make me think that I shouldn't take your word. With Cheerio it's the same, though are relationship hasn't reached the point where her vouchsafing for someone would automatically recommend them to me.
How do I define a Chassid? At this point in my life, the only answer I trust is the one given by the Rebbe Rashab in yechidus, that a Chassid is a lamplighter. If what you say is true, and I'm sure it is, then I have no reason to doubt Rabbi Boteach's character.
Perhaps I should meet him. Or maybe not. Whatever it is, that's what it is.

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From The Roommate:

I would rethink that trustworthy attitude but hey, that's just me.

If by lamplighter you mean someone who spreads Yiddishkeit and Chassidus, I doubt you'll find someone more qualified than Rabbi Boteach.

You should definitely meet him.

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From: The Real Shliach:

What's wrong with trusting people?
As for meeting him, "Take me to your leader."
Anyway, what would I say?

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From: The Roommate:

It's not a good idea to trust people you don't know, is all I'm saying. Trust is an earned thing, generally. I don't know how to further explain that.

There are defintitely going to be upcoming events in the New York area where Boteach will be speaking or leading or even around - I can be sure to put you on the mailing list if you're interested. He's very approachable, and loves Lubavitchers, so if you'd like, just introduce yourself and tell him what you thought of what he said or so forth. It's pretty easy to see that he's nowhere near the vicious power-hungry mongel he's often made out to be by older generations that are scandalized a shliach would associate with non-Jews or speak about sexuality (both common practices nowadays - shluchim are now quite happy to associate with Shmuley's old buddies from the Lechaim society now that they're rich and famous, and as I recall there's a great book about mikveh/sexuality written by a shlucha that is commonly accepted now). Ask to come for Shabbos - he always has a full house, many Lubavitchers often.

Thanks for being open to my remarks. In real life I'm definitely not this harsh, but the internet makes it somehow possible, you know?

Wishing you the best.

The Roommate

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From: The Real Shliach:

Yes, I suppose so. I think that there's two kinds of trust here; one is the subway kind of trust, that I trust that my fellow occupants in a subway car won't suddenly attack me, though I'm still a bit wary. The other kind would be when someone tells me something. When I don't think there's any reason not to believe them I generally do.
I'm not going to be in New York until after Tishrei, and I don't know if I want a million emails from a list coming in; going to his house sounds like a much cooler option, though I don't know where he is, which is a bit of a complication. Also, I can't imagine myself walking over to someone who I've never met and telling them why I think they're wrong; the internet, as you say, emboldens one to make statements which would never pass through our lips in real life.

Wishing you the best, of course,
TRS

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From The Roommate:

I would say to try and email him:

shmuley@shmuley.com.

he always responds.

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From: The Real Shliach:

Nu, and what should I say?

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From: The Roommate:

I don't know - if you have a boen to pick with him, do so - of course, my recommendation would be to be respectful and have you know, basic ahavas yisroel, though he is definitely used to the standard dull inarticulate rants and defamation and bashing, I'm sure.

Ask if you can come for shabbos and when a good time would be - he always has bochurim come, it's totally not a weird question.

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From: The Real Shliach:

Do I have a bone to pick with him? I'm not even sure at this point. If I read some of his articles, I'f probably remember some things which I don't like, but at this point all I can recall is that I don't agree. With what though, I don't know. So I guess that one's out of the question. Perhaps I should just say that you said to email him, and see what hapens; that could be fun(ny).
As for going over. where does he live? NY?

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From: The Roommate:

Well,I would only recommend being in contact with him if there is something in particular you want to discuss. You could always just ask to come for Shabbos if you want.

If all you remember is that you disagree, in all likelihood you were convinced by someone of his wrongness, and very little of that convincing had to do with facts... am I right?

He lives in englewood, new jersey.

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From: The Real Shliach :

So I told Cheerio that I had capitulated to you, in she castigated me in the wildest terms imaginable. Seems that I was being counted on to provide entertainment for her, and my admitting defeat at so early a juncture ruined those plans. So, for her sake, let's have a real argument. I'll say something so outrageous that no one could possibly defend it, you'll respond, shocked beyond belief, I'll stay my ground, you'll call up Moshe Kotlarsky and demand my immediate execution, he'll refer you to Rabbi Shmuley, the two of them will sic their dogs on me, I'll run off to Paris, and probably be home in time for supper.
No I just have to think of something to say...
Have a tremendously meaningful Shabbos, and remember to take everything I say with a 2 pound box of salt, because you ain't seen nothing yet!

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From The Roommate:

Sounds good, I'm looking forward..have a great shabbos

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From: The Real Shliach :

OK, I'll see what I can do. How about, "Chabad as we know it is dying a slow and painful death?" No, that's not controversial enough. Perhaps, "Orthodox Judaism should accept members of the GLBT community with open arms, and embrace gay marriage." Hmm, that could do it. Or maybe you'd wish to discuss the effects of chaos theory on Jewish thought in our times? That would also be interesting. Oh well then, I've given you some great options there, I can't wait to see which one you rip my head off for...

And if you made it this far - up for a Shabbaton at the Boteach's?